Saturday, February 8, 2014

Christians in the age of hunger

The Bread Line – George Benjamin Luks (1867-1933)
Dayton Art Institute
The following discussion was prompted by an article written by Marilyn Cahndler McEntryre posted on a blog entitled 'Life Turnings.'

GLEANINGS – Consenting to Consciousness - by Marilyn Chandler McEntyre, February 3, 2014

IN MANY YEARS OF TEACHING I’VE COME TO UNDERSTAND at least one basic thing about learning: It can be scary. Knowing something we didn’t know before can be disorienting, threatening, unsettling. It may require that we rearrange what we thought we knew, to become less comfortable and more accountable, and to act on what we have learned. All real learning entails those consequences, but especially learning about the systems we inhabit and the processes we rely on for goods, services, food, security, and peace of mind.

If we consent to be conscious, we will be blessed with the courage it takes. If we live in solidarity with the poor who are always with us, we will find ourselves less attached to the false security of wealth, and gradually discover the benefits of holding our “treasures on earth” with a more open hand.
Exploiting the Poor to Benefit the Rich

When we begin to read about how we get our food, for instance, it doesn’t take long to encounter the sobering truth that the people who plant and harvest much of the food we obtain through vast networks of chain stores are often underpaid for long hours of backbreaking labor and have no health benefits. Nor does it take long, if we bother to inquire, to find out which companies are subjecting workers in poor countries to substandard working conditions, including squalid housing, no job security or direct abuse, in order to provide inexpensive clothing to North American consumers and large profits to stockholders.

Learning for the first time about injustices we hadn’t been aware of can be a little like throwing a new chip in a kaleidoscope: one new chip changes the whole design. And one new fact can sometimes change our whole understanding of, say, the “American way of life,” or of what’s “normal” or “harmless,” or of how we understand what it means to be a person of faith. We will likely find that some of our most basic assumptions may need to be reevaluated.

Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger

I have come to believe that saying “yes” to Christ means saying yes to seeking the truths that will set us and others free, and consenting to act on those truths when we find them. For me, that has meant that, though I haven’t given away all my possessions and abandoned my car, I have attempted to cultivate new habits of awareness and choice—to ask about economic and agricultural and political processes, to consider what I’m supporting when I vote, buy, or travel. It has meant considering my moral choices not only in terms of whether I personally lie, cheat, steal, or play fair, but of how the systems I inhabit work, for whose benefit, and at whose cost. Like most North Americans, I am a beneficiary of the labor of many who are poorer and more vulnerable than I. I have to live with the disturbing truth that I get more than I have earned from the fruits of others’ labors, and they, often, far less.

I do not believe it’s my job to “save the world,” but it is my job to be a good steward of the resources given to me—the time, money, and power over which I have any control. There is nothing to be gained by overwhelming myself or others with fruitless guilt, but there is something to be gained by the spiritual discipline of taking participatory responsibility and for living generously and justly as a “rich Christian in an age of hunger.”

The Culpable Ignorance of the Consumer Culture

In American consumer culture, very few of us have much opportunity to witness a whole process. It is easy not to know who planted or harvested what we eat, or even what part of the world it comes from. Most of us don’t understand the process of designing and building a computer or TV—or of disposing of toxic techno-waste—though we depend heavily on our electronic technologies. We don’t know who made the clothes we’re wearing—and we don’t have to see how little those workers eat or how tired they are at the end of a sixteen-hour day.

To seek truth is to have the courage and will to ask how things came about, to concern ourselves with justice in human process and with wisdom and good stewardship in the ways we intervene in the processes of nature. Only to see the surfaces of things, only to concern ourselves with the immediacies of our daily tasks, and to rely comfortably on products and conveniences without counting the human costs involved in making and maintaining them is a shameful irresponsibility—what the church used to call culpable ignorance. Culpable ignorance—the will not to know for the sake of protecting your own comfort zone—comes from fear. And fear is a taproot of sin.

Small Steps Toward New Habits of Fidelity

So what are the practices that can keep us at that learning edge, help us to walk through the fear of guilt or change, and open our hearts wide enough to imagine and love the others whose lives we affect so deeply, even though we never see them?  There are simple practices: the learning curve need not be impossibly steep, and God is gracious. There are small steps to take toward new habits of fidelity. I would suggest four practices that might be taken on as simple spiritual disciplines: asking the hard questions, acting on what we find out, having asked them, sharing that knowledge and allowing it to lead us into new relationship with each other and the earth, and allowing our widened awareness to reshape our practices of worship and the focus of our prayers.

It is both easier and harder in this internet generation to find out what we might need to know to make more responsible choices about how to be faithful participants in public process: easier because there is so much information available, harder because there is so much misinformation and disinformation available. Still, we can begin anywhere we can find elders and authorities we trust and work outward from there, doing the homework required to make our choices more caring by raising questions like these:

— What are the processes involved in making and delivering what I buy? (It’s good to be specific here—this pair of jeans, this pound of coffee, this diamond ring.)
— What are the real costs of its manufacture and marketing?
— Who is paying those costs? Who is bearing the risks? Whose lives are enhanced and whose diminished in the process?
— What habits of consumption have I normalized? Where does my notion of “normal” come from?  (Is it normal, for instance, to have fifteen pairs of shoes?  Or to produce sixty pounds of trash a week? Or to drive 30 miles to see a movie?)
— Is my way of life sustainable? If not, how can I help the coming generation of children prepare for a world in which their economic options are likely to be very different from ours? (How, for instance, might I get involved in educating children about particular processes—for instance, teaching them what comes into a house and what goes out of it, and where it goes, or teaching them how children live in Baghdad or Hong Kong or Manila?)
— What do I have to take into account if I widen my sense of personal responsibility to include the policies and practices of corporations and of our government? (What letters might I write, what meetings might I show up at that might make a difference?)
— What particular burden of responsibility does my Americanness impose upon me as a Christian?
More specific questions to pursue might include these:

— What legal protections are in place for the large labor force working as harvesters on megafarms or as garment makers in the largely outsourced clothing industry?
— What are the consequences of exposure to the FDA approved pesticides—for consumers and for those who work in fields that are sprayed?
— How has the fast food and convenience food industry changed my eating habits? With what particular effects on me and others?
— How by protecting my high-consumption “way of life” am I contributing to others’ poverty?
— In what specific ways have I become oil-dependent along with so many others, and how does this affect government and corporate economic and military decisions? Who is directly affected by oil drilling and the competition for that particular resource?
— Who owns the media and what controls do they exercise on what we get to know?
— What is happening to the world’s soil, water, animal species, air, and ecological balance? With what short- and long-term effects on humans and the rest of the natural world we were given to care for?
— What are the consequences of thinking about morality in a purely individualistic way?
— What tensions define for me the relationship between “Christian” and “American” right now?
— What, as an American Christian, might I need to re-examine, resist, or renounce? What might I need to support and commit to?
Along with broad questions like these, it’s helpful to raise routinely some personal “test questions” like these when shopping:

— Is this item really something I need?  How will owning it and using it serve my deeper purposes?
— Can I choose to buy it from a socially and ecologically responsible company?
— Can I choose to support local or independent producers rather than those that concentrate disproportionate money and power in a few hands?
— How can I make my purchases part of a pattern of choices that help me practice love and justice?
— Do I want this enough to relinquish or forego something else?
Joyful Obedience in Courageous Solidarity

Questions like these lead to practical choices. Those choices can lead us into new patterns of conversation and community life. Though they may involve some relinquishment and some sobering reassessment, they can be undertaken in a gracious, life-affirming way, keeping the accent on joyful obedience, generous caring, and compassionate curiosity about how others experience the world. When we find our way to others who share these concerns, especially other believers, they can inform our worship and our life of prayer. Our understanding of what it means to be a part of the Body of Christ, of what it means to be stewards of creation, and of what it means to do justice and love mercy in caring for creation can be widened and enlivened in amazing ways.

Our God is a God of amazing grace. Though we are deeply complicit in unjust systems, I believe God can and does enlarge and transform every effort we make toward living justly and every prayer we offer on behalf of the vulnerable and the victimized. If we consent to be conscious, we will be blessed with the courage it takes. If we live in solidarity with the poor who are always with us, we will find ourselves less attached to the false security of wealth, and gradually discover the benefits of holding our “treasures on earth” with a more open hand. If we come together in these efforts, we may find ourselves in a more enlivening conversation than we could have imagined, among people who can teach us as we go what it means to heed the great command to “Choose life.”

Marilyn Chandler McEntyre is adjunct professor of Medical Humanities, UC Berkeley-UCSF Joint Medical Program, and a Fellow at the Gaede Institute, Westmont College, having been professor of English literature at Mills College, the College of New Jersey, and Westmont College. With a Ph.D. from Princeton University, she is a frequent contributor to Weavings, and is the author of Caring for Words in a Culture of Lies, Christ My Companion, and three collections of poetry on the art of Vermeer, Rembrandt, and Van Gogh — In Quiet Light, Drawn to the Light, and The Color of Light. Her most recent book is Patient Poets: Illness from Inside Out.

© 2014 Marilyn Chandler McEntyre

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Fabulous article!
I couldn't help thinking that such considerations and life emphasis have been characteristic of our more liberal minded Christians for decades!
We need to link with them in advancing the social imperatives of the gospel: justice for the poor, etc.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

2 Corinthians 8:1-5 
"(1) Now, brethren, we wish to make known to you the grace of God which has been given in the churches of Macedonia, (2) that in a great ordeal of affliction their abundance of joy and their deep poverty overflowed in the wealth of their liberality. (3) For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability, they gave of their own accord, (4) begging us with much urging for the favor of participation in the support of the saints, (5) and this, not as we had [d]expected, but they first gave themselves to the Lord and to us by the will of God."

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com

So, then...? You agree with John Deacon? Thanks for the testimony of the Macedonians.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

No... I agree with how true salvation in Jesus impacts people's lives. 

I am not nearly as inclined as many to focus on the ABUSES of individuals, which usually leads to a dismissal or perversion of Scriptural truth.

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com
Top Contributor

So, Robert, with respect to social justice and the new social order of God's kingdom that Jesus said is present to us now ("the kingdom of God is among/within you"), how are we to read Jesus' parables about the first becoming last and the last first? The parable of the Workers in the Vineyard? The parable of the Rich Man and Poor Lazarus at the Gate? The parable of the Prodigal Son and the Older Brother? The parable of the Good Samaritan (outsider), in contrast to the priest and the Levite (insiders)? And his encounter with the Rich Young Ruler? And the Beatitudes and Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5-7) as Jesus' manifesto to his disciples? And Luke's Sermon on the Plain (6:20-26) in which Jesus turns the social order upside down for the sake of justice for the poor, as when he overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple as sign of God's reversal of the socio-religious-economic order, which quickly landed him nailed to a tree as an agitator and traitor who taught his followers to love not only one another but also their enemies? How are we as servants of the gospel to interpret these texts? What if they are "Scriptural truth" with respect to the "true salvation" that "in Jesus impacts people's lives," and indeed how!? It seems to me that we all stand under both the judgment and the liberation of these words of our Lord, subject to the radical reversal of sin, evil, and death in the final resurrection to everlasting life in God's altogether new creation, which he declared with respect to the present social order is breaking in upon us now! How marvelous! What do you think?

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

I think everything in the Bible should be read literally in context. Parables are parables... promises are promises... history is history... 

The passage I referenced is historical fact and demonstrates how a truly saved life is impacted in practical... amazing... and unbelievable ways. 

Today, the Macedonians would be told... "No, you folks are poor and under oppresion, you shouldn't give. Let the rich give." 

That was historical fact... here is a commandment from the Law... 

Exodus 30:15 - "The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the Lord, to make an atonement for your souls."

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com

And with respect to the commandment of the Mosaic (and Levitical) law, Jesus said: "You have heard it said, but I say unto you . . . ." Contrary to Exodus 30:15, Jesus said to the rich young ruler, "Go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure [not here but] in heaven." And such a gift would have been far more than half a shekel, or the man would not have been "rich" to begin with. Then Jesus followed thereupon with those most disturbing of words: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God," which dumbfounded his disciples, who asked, "Who then can be saved?" To which he replied, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God." And that leaves room for you and me, since no atonement for our souls can be made with a human offering of as much, or little, as half a shekel, or any amount of money. Jesus' drove the moneychangers out of the temple to make that very point, and thus to put an end to animal sacrifice. Our human offerings, unless they be our gifts to the poor in solidarity with their cries for justice, are worthless in the sight of God.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

Our atonement, no matter how rich or poor, is EXACTLY the SAME! The substitutionary death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. 

The Law required the SAME from all people - Grace requires the SAME atonement from all people. 
_________ 

Isaiah 55:8 - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord." 

You're approach makes perfect human logical sense. NOT God's ways though... 

Mark 12:41-44 
41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich CAST IN MUCH. 
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 
43 And he CALLED UNTO HIM HIS DISCIPLES, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: 
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. 

According to human logic, Jesus should have commended the RICH for their generosity! The Bible says that they CAST IN MUCH! 

Who "impressed" Jesus? The POOR WIDOW who gave EVERYTHING she had! 

According to your theories... she should have given nothing and taken offerings. 

Because of her faith and faithfulness, she is recorded forever in the Word of God as someone that Jesus CALLED His disciples over to POINT OUT. 

If she followed modern protocols of giving... no one would ever know about her! 
_________ 

For me, I cannot IGNORE the truths of the Word of God, because some people abuse it.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

Hi Charles Davidson 

You said quote: "And with respect to the commandment of the Mosaic (and Levitical) law, Jesus said: "You have heard it said, but I say unto you . . . ." 

My response: Look up EVERY one of those "but I say unto you" references and you will find Jesus EXPANDING the letter of the Law and demonstrating that the spirit of the Law FAR exceeds the letter. 

Examples: Don't murder expands to don't hate - don't commit adultery expands to don't lust - etc.

Fran Pultro, Senior Pastor at Calvary Chapel King's Highway

Charles, c'mon. You know the Scripture doesn't say "blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." 

More accurately it says, 'Blessed are the poor IN SPIRIT..."

Robert Oliver, Pastor at KJV BIBLE BAPTIST CHURCH

That's from the Sermon on the Mount, which is to Israel, it applies to "Kingdom Law" not the Age of Grace and not the Age of Law (Millennial Context).

Fran Pultro, Senior Pastor at Calvary Chapel King's Highway
Top Contributor

Robert, so, you don't believe the Sermon on the Mount is for the Church?

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com

"Then he looked up at his disciples and said: 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God'" (Luke 6:20). And then, additionally, what does it mean to be "poor in spirit"? Was Matthew attempting to relieve the hearer of the universality and harshness of Luke's beatitude, or instead, to call all disciples to the spirit of poverty that belongs to the poor? Or . . . what? It is left to the disciple to decide.

Fran Pultro, Senior Pastor at Calvary Chapel King's Highway
Top Contributor

Are the "His disciples" in Luke, those nearest to Him (the 12 + some others), or all who were following Him at that point? 

In the context of that portion of Luke they were seeking healing, & deliverance from unclean spirits. 

So does "poor" here refer to their financial state, their physical health or their spiritual state? 
I believe the latter, making no conflict with Matt 5.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

God's ways are not our ways results in the poor widow giving all she had, trusting in God, and being immortalized in the Word of God for all eternity. 

Lean on our own understanding results in the poor widow keeping all she had, trusting in herself, and having no mention in the Bible. 
_______________ 

I would much rather teach people to TRUST God, rather than badger or confiscate from the wealthy to re-distribute to the poor. 

Does anyone here think that the poor widow who "impressed" Jesus ever suffered lack? 

Don't get me wrong... the Bible has much to say about generosity... where many get it wrong is in the secular mindset that God only expects the wealthy to be generous.

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com

So, Fran, why conflate Luke ch. 6 with Matt. ch. 5, when clearly neither Matthew nor Luke intended such conflation? Otherwise the words "in spirit" would not have differentiated the texts as they do. And then what do you make of the surrounding context in Luke in which Jesus declares, "But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry"? With respect to Luke's Jesus, the poverty of which he speaks is as literal as it gets. It means empty stomachs and famished frames. When Jesus commanded the disciples to feed the 5,000, he wasn't asking them to give the poor a sermon about "spiritual" poverty. And when he asked the rich young ruler to sell all his worldly goods and give them to the poor, he was asking the man to become poor himself (something which very few of us have been willing to do in response to the gospel, unless we happen already to be among the poor). And then there is the Matthean matter of poverty of spirit as radical humility, the necessary prerequisite to discipleship in every form.

Fran Pultro, Senior Pastor at Calvary Chapel King's Highway

Charles, so tell me, do you suppose this means that all who are poor will get into Heaven, or only that this (along with other Scriptures) means all who are poor have a better chance of getting in [Matt 19:24; Mk 10:25]?

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

Very interesting how direct quotes of Bible examples goes ignored, especially when they conflict with one's agenda.

Robert Oliver, Pastor at KJV BIBLE BAPTIST CHURCH

Hi Fran, no, I'm not saying that Matthew 5 or any other portion of Scripture is not for the Church, as "every" verse of the Bible is indeed for the NT child of God in 1 of "3" ways: Doctrinally, Spiritually, or Prophetically; let me explain..the Sermon on the Mount applies "Doctrinally" to the physical seed of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob for the time period known as the Millennium, that would be called "Kingdom Law", however, the sermon on the mount absolutely applies to those today under the Age of Grace but only "Spiritually", in other words, yes, we should strive to love our neighbor as ourselves and forgive others as they offend us, "But", that has nothing to do with our salvation under Grace. Note: we are already Forgiven of all sin positionally, whether or not we forgive others, but these people in Matthew 5,6,7 must forgive "others" in order for them to be forgiven, why? because during the Millennium the King will be present and works will be an active part of one's standing before God, they must abide by Kingdom Law or perish. So, to answer your question, yes, it applies to the Christian spiritually but "not" doctrinally or prophetically. I hope this helps clarify brother.

Fran Pultro, Senior Pastor at Calvary Chapel King's Highway

Robert, thanks for the clarification.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Dear Charles: 
Words fail me in conveying my deep appreciation for your post and Marilyn's article. 
By way of affirming her message and yours, below is an article I wrote on 'advocacy' initially posted on a blog devoted to street people. (www.homelesguide.com)

LESSONS ON ADVOCACY

Learn to do good; seek justice, rescue the oppressed, defend the orphan, plead for the widow. 
Isaiah 1:17

One Sabbath day as Jesus was teaching in a synagogue, he saw a woman who had been crippled by an evil spirit. She had been bent double for eighteen years and was unable to stand up straight. 
When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said, “Dear woman, you are healed of your sickness!” 
Then he touched her, and instantly she could stand straight. How she praised God! 
But the leader in charge of the synagogue was indignant that Jesus had healed her on the Sabbath day. “There are six days of the week for working,” he said to the crowd. “Come on those days to be healed, not on the Sabbath.” 
But the Lord replied, “You hypocrites! Each of you works on the Sabbath day! Don’t you untie your ox or your donkey from its stall on the Sabbath and lead it out for water? This dear woman, a daughter of Abraham, has been held in bondage by Satan for eighteen years. Isn’t it right that she be released, even on the Sabbath?” 
This shamed his enemies, but all the people rejoiced at the wonderful things he did. 
Luke 13:10-17

This passage from Luke 13 is textbook material on advocacy. 
It involves an advocate, someone who mediates between those in charge and those afflicted. In this instance it involves Jesus and a woman bent double for eighteen years. 
She is crippled by something evil as are all things that oppress. Those around her believe what ails her can't be changed. 
But her advocate sees otherwise. Jesus sees a woman standing upright, no longer crushed by evil. He may even see her dancing. 
With God's help, he heals the woman. Praising God she walks upright, no longer having to crawl or beg or be pushed aside. She's free. 
The relationship between the woman and her advocate is personal. His healing involves words and touch. To justify his contravening religious protocol, he identifies the afflicted woman as family: 'this dear woman, a daughter of Abraham ... Isn't it right that she be released, even on the sabbath?' True justice insists on freedom regardless of what day it is! She is one of us, she is family! 
Those in charge insist her advocate is in violation of things God has ordained. 'This is not the time' they indignantly reply. It's a ruse as are all conventions that stand between the oppressed and their release. 
Jesus is not dissuaded and heals her, evidence of God's being at work among those written off as insignificant. 
The resistance of those in charge ultimately leads to their condemning Jesus to death, which only plants an irrepressible seed in every generation producing advocates like him. 
Which may include us, if we have the faith and tenacity to see things the way they should be and to intercede regardless of the cost. 
As much as we believe in God we must see the disadvantaged and oppressed as family, our family, God's family for whom justice can only mean release. (http://www.homelessguide.com/2011/06/lessons-in-advocacy.html)

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Dear Robert Oliver: 
Your explanation of Matthew 5-7 is the most convoluted crap I have ever heard. There is no distinction as to who those verses apply to: to all those who lay claim to the kingdom. We are to live these out without compromise, equipped by the grace that makes such living possible. 
Your explanation reminds me of something Soren Kierkegaard wrote: 

“The matter is quite simple. The bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say, if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in the world? Herein lies the real place of Christian scholarship. Christian scholarship is the Church’s prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming too close. Oh, priceless scholarship, what would we do without you? Dreadful it is to fall into the hands of the living God. Yes it is even dreadful to be alone with the New Testament.”

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 - "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com

Fran, thanks for your comments and questions! So, I will answer your question with a question as well. Do you think Jesus made fine distinctions between those who are poor for whatever reason they are deemed poor? Is the state of deep mental anguish any worse than the state of severe physical famine, such as the difference in states of mind and body between the Gerasene Demoniac and the hungry mouths awaiting the feeding of the 5,000? It seems from the Gospel stories that Jesus offered life to both, as he did to the rich young ruler who turned and walked away simply because the price placed upon his salvation was too much for him to bear. There is one great advantage to being among the destitute of the Earth. Nothing stands between them and the gracious mercy of God. But for the possessors of great mammon, the mammon itself is a bulwark against salvation. Blessings to you.

Robert Dallmann
Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

1 Thessalonians 4:11-12 - "and to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to WORK WITH YOUR HANDS, as we instructed you, (12) so that you may walk properly before outsiders and BE DEPENDENT ON NO ONE."

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com
Top Contributor

Oh, John, how magnificent are your words of advocacy. They have the fire in the belly of Jesus in them. And then you even call dearly beloved Soren Kierkegaard into the fray--that prophetic critic of both church and culture who slices through the mustard, calling the hand of all of us who engage in even the least bit of self-justifying theological gnat-swatting. Indeed, Jesus is perfectly clear about what he means regarding the poor, without obfuscation. It is only we who prefer to remain in the dark. Kierkegaard is right. How easy it is for us quibbling followers of the Galilean to devise weighty doctrinal trappings consisting of so much theological hogwash so as to defend ourselves against the life-giving summons of our Lord coming too close for comfort. Jesus' detractors and enemies knew precisely what he was advocating with respect to the divine reversal of their vested interest in retaining the wide divide between rich and poor. And that's why, when Jesus pronounced that the meek would inherit the Earth and the poor the Kingdom of Heaven (meaning both Earth and Heaven would belong to the meek-poor), they who disparaged such a wild scheme proceeded to string him up for dead, for good, forever--until God stepped into the picture yet once again on Easter morning and reversed the course of death and sin. And so we, through no righteousness of our own, become rich in him who became poor for us. Luke's beatitudes are blistering, and we, among the very richest of people on the Earth, are the ones so blistered. As Kierkegaard said, the disciple at first hand has no advantage over the disciple at second hand. Both are subject to the same decision. And so, as I ponder the parable of the Rich Man and Poor Lazarus, I ask myself which one of the two I am. Just so with the Workers in the Vineyard, some who come early in the day, and others who come late, both belonging to the same Lord and both receiving the same wage. Can we imagine how infuriated were the bank-rolled members of the aristocracy of Jesus' day, to be confronted with the fact that even for a single day, much less for eternity, the last should become first and the first last? If that isn't cause for rejoicing on the part of the oppressed whose heads are ground into the dust of history by the machinations of the oppressor, then nothing is. And as for the fate of the oppressor, it is simply too frightening to say. We can only imagine the conversation between Jesus and Zacchaeus, as to what Jesus said to him within the privacy of the tax collector's home to convince him that it would be in his best interest to restore fourfold what he had unjustly extorted from the poor on behalf of Caesar. And the same saga of complexity continues today, which is why Marilyn McEntyre's self-appraisal in light of the gospel is worth every inch of the "digital paper" it is printed on. Thank you, Marilyn, for not letting us off the hook any more than you spared yourself!

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

Proverbs 20:4 - "The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing."

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Dear Robert D: 

There are over 2000 verses in the Bible concerning the poor and most of them in the context of how God cares for them and expects the same of us. 
Not to say that poor people aren't exempt from the same human nature that makes some of us greedy, others perpetually self-serving and others dishonest, etc... 

For the many poor people I know, their 3 wants are typically: 
Dignity - to be welcomed and embraced as fully human, worthy of respect in keeping with being loved by Jesus and in community with others who know them by name; 
Shelter - a place of their own, protected space where they are not as vulnerable to the harshness of street life i.e. theft, violence, addiction and prostitution and 
Employment - sufficient to meet their needs for food, clothing and shelter, to give them purpose and self-reliance and enable them to help others - which from my experience makes our generosity look so meagre and inconsequential, it puts us to shame (remember the widow's mite) 

There are many Proverbs about the poor - my two favourites being Proverbs 14:31 and Proverbs 31:8,9 but here are some others you may not be as familiar with: 

A person who oppresses the poor is like a pounding rain that destroys the crops - 28:3 
Evil people don't understand justice but those who follow the Lord understand it completely - 28:5 
Better to be poor and honest than to be dishonest and rich - 28:6 
Income from charging high interest rates will end up in the pocket of someone who is kind to the poor - 28:8 
Rich people may think they are wise, but a poor person with discernment can see right through them - 28:11 
A wicked ruler is as dangerous to the poor as a roaring lion or an attacking bear - 28:15 
Whoever gives to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to poverty will be cursed - 28:27 
The godly care about the rights of the poor; the wicked don't care at all - 29:7 
The poor and oppressor have this in common - the Lord gives sight to the eyes of both - 29:13 
If a king judges the poor fairly, his throne will last forever - 29:14 
Many seek the ruler's favour, but justice comes from the Lord - 29:26

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

Proverbs 13:4 - "The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat." 

I have NO PROBLEM helping the poor. By national standards, I am slightly above the poverty line. 

The fact that the Bible tells the rich and powerful how to behave properly, DOES NOT INVALIDATE the fact that the Bible tells the poor how to behave properly as well. 

Sorry, John... but God's ways are NOT our ways... His are SO MUCH HIGHER! 
________________ 

Why didn't Jesus applaud the GENEROUS wealthy people throwing lots of money into the treasury... they were DOING what you bemoan that the church does NOT do. 

No! Jesus APPLAUDS for all eternity... the POOR WIDOW who trusted God and gave Him her ALL!

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Dear Robert:

If you are just above the poverty line in the US, you are a member of the world's wealthiest 10%. If your net annual income after taxes exceeds $45,000, you're in the wealthiest 1%.

"Again, I observed all the oppression that takes place under the sun. I saw the tears of the oppressed, with no one to comfort them. The oppressors have great power, and their victims are helpless." Ecclesiastes 4:1,2

Solomon was wealthier than either of us and wise enough to know where injustice truly lies. He even knew how powerless the truly poor are to change their circumstances.
Whatever the struggle is: marital strain, confusion about sexual identity, abortion, mental health issues, severe physical disability, unemployment, lack of education, troubles with the law etc. etc. - add poverty to the mix and the complications increase exponentially. 
If I suddenly found myself without a dime, my possessions gone and without employment - within a day I find someone who would give me a meal, find another who would take me in within the week and probably find employment within a month.
Why? Because I'm resourceful? No - but because of all the friends I have which are not lost to me even if I lose everything I have.
Poverty - dire poverty - is to be without those connections of resource. One of the great tragedies of poverty - emphasized throughout the Bible, is that it isolates, deprives you of friends, and has you out in the street like Lazarus (Luke 16) so desperate for company that you long for dogs to lick your wounds. Even if, like the prodigal (Luke 15) you get employment, it's not enough for adequate food or shelter. 
All of this, I could have read in a book. But by God's grace, I did one better - poor people have become my friends. As they are to be to everyone who claims to be Christ's - the great lesson of Matthew 25:31-46 - and emphasized repeatedly through passages like Isaiah 58 and most poignantly by the Lord's own words: 'theirs is the kingdom of God.'

Just as Paul as a 'Pharisee of the Pharisees' would be Christianity's greatest spokesperson against our becoming Pharisaical; so we too are challenged to speak against the very thing which represents our greatest obstacle to serving Christ. 
There's no challenge in my decrying abortion, or homosexuality, as though they are the issues that obstruct my relationship with Christ. There is no victory to be claimed over the sins that don't tempt me.
But wealth, power, influence, prosperity, social status, possessions, privilege - these are the things that war against my soul and simultaneously oppress the poor. It means on one level, biting the hand that feeds me, but from God's vantage point it is 'becoming poor' which Christ requires of everyone with wealth.

Hence the driving force in my life includes these two verses:

"Those who oppress the poor insult their Maker, 
but helping the poor honours him." Proverbs 14:31

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves;
ensure justice for those being crushed.
Yes, speak up for the poor and helpless,
and see that they get justice." Proverbs 31:8,9

Robert, I fully understand that the driving passion of your life may be something other than the poor. But I think 'solidarity with the poor' is something all Christians should aspire to:
"Listen to me, dear brothers and sisters. Hasn’t God chosen the poor in this world to be rich in faith? Aren’t they the ones who will inherit the Kingdom he promised to those who love him? But you dishonour the poor! Isn’t it the rich who oppress you and drag you into court? Aren’t they the ones who slander Jesus Christ, whose noble name you bear?" James 2:5-7

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

LOL!!!! John Deacon 

You said quote: "Dear Robert: If you are just above the poverty line in the US, you are a member of the world's wealthiest 10%. If your net annual income after taxes exceeds $45,000, you're in the wealthiest 1%." 

My response: WOW! I was wrong... I must be WELL below the poverty line! 
________________ 

Mark 16:15 - "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." 

The driving force in my life is PLEASING GOD and preaching His Gospel to EVERYONE I meet. 

If you WANT to REJECT the numerous Scriptures I have already quoted (and many others) because it is contrary to your AGENDA... go ahead and REJECT. 
________________ 

I have asked you a few times now (each has been ignored)... 

Why didn't Jesus applaud the wealthy who were being VERY GEREROUS when He sat by the treasury and watched people throwing in their donations? 

These wealthy were doing exactly what you WHINE that we should be doing. 

Why did Jesus make a big deal about the POOR WIDOW and her two mites? 

She did exactly what you say she SHOULDN'T be doing? 
________________ 

Keep thinking with your humanistic mind... you will NOT find God's ways!

Fran Pultro, Senior Pastor at Calvary Chapel King's Highway

Charles, I believe we (you & I) are in agreement regarding how we should care for the poor, even though we might disagree about the meaning of some Scriptures (I see subtle differences in meaning between Matt 5 & Luke 6, due to the use of different words in those verses). 

My entire ministry (35+ years) has been to those very low on the socioeconomic "ladder." That's not to boast. Just sayin' that I hear what you are saying, having lived it, felt it & seen it up close & personal. 

The Word of God is true, those with earthly riches tend to trust in those riches & not in the Lord & His provision, whether that provision is material or spiritual.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

For me, I too have spent much time and money in ministry to the poor. Four years in New York City prisons, homeless, trouble street kids, soup kitchens, AIDS hospital, etc. etc. etc. 

In no way do I deny any aspect of the Bible, including those that instruct generosity. 

However, I will not sit by while the agenda driven attempt to blot out of the Bible (or just ignore them) the MANY verses that call for accountability of the poor as well as the rich. 

The Bible is NOT silent in these areas... neither will I be.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Robert: 
I appreciate that your ministry includes engaging with the poor. 
My only issue, where we might - and I say that reservedly - be disagreed, is on the matter of accountability. 
I think the primary issue in our time pertaining to accountability is not welfare fraud, or social assistance theft, or the scales of justice being slanted to favour poor people. 

It is accountability of those of us who are wealthy to care, to seek solidarity with those without voice or influence, an oppressive indifference which justifies excessive incomes at the expense of poor people, justice systems which reinforce their oppression and dire circumstance and the common mistake the wealthy of confusing charity with justice. Salvation coming to Zacchaeus' house came in part because of his willingness to make amends for his robbing the poor. So often we hear of billionaires giving millions to causes helping poor and vulnerable people but rarely in the recognition that they are making restitution. Zacchaeus got that which was evidence enough that his repentance was genuine and life changing. 

I like what Shane Claiborne says about the wealthy is his book - 'An Irresistible Revolution'. 
'It's not that the rich don't care for the poor,' he writes, 'but that they don't know the poor well enough to care.' 
If we as preachers, pastors, prophets and God's people to encourage the wealthy we are in fellowship with to make friends with the poor so they have some feeling for their plight, thereby gaining the inspiration to engage themselves in the essential biblical work of restitution - the advance it would mean to God's kingdom cannot be understated.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

"We often see poverty as an economic and social issue, but we must have a deeper understanding. In the ultimate analysis, poverty is death. It is unjust and early death. It is the destruction of persons, of people, and nations. 
Poverty is not fate, it is a condition; it is not a misfortune, it is an injustice. It is the result of social structures and mental and cultural categories, it is linked to the way in which society has been built, in its various manifestations." 
Gustavo Gutierrez

The backside of poverty is not pretty. It is impersonal, inhumane, faceless, a statistic of loss that somehow even the most caring of us can become immune to. It is a social evil we’ve lost the will to resist, an indifference we succumb to even though it leaves people in the cold, clutching at scraps, their dignity trampled at every turn. 
We walk quickly past, hoping that the briefest of glances on our part excuses us from our being held accountable. We blow off the question of being our sister's keeper.

But the issue changes when we confront her face to face. Though overwhelmed, we begin digging for resources beyond what our wallets can hold. 
A life of prayer can begin with one homeless face. So too the pursuit for justice, compassion and restitution. God gets in our steps.

Seeing this woman's face, she is beautiful, the stuff of poetry and romance. But in hearing her hoarse whisper the allusion that poverty is beautiful shatters. To befriend her will mean sacrifice, much being misunderstood. 'Patience' we'll insist and she laments she has already waited too long. 
She will persevere, but will we? 
Or will we treat her as though a hobby to visit whenever we're not clutching at scraps, lest she wound us so deeply we cry out 'NO MORE!' 
(see - http://www.homelessguide.com/2010/10/two-sides-of-poverty.html)

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

My primary concern is in the health and well being of people's eternities! 

If I could make all the poor rich, and none of them got saved... 
or... 
I could lead just one of the poor to Jesus... 

I would do the second option. 

Just like the rich man and Lazarus... his full belly on earth served no purpose in eternity. 

I am writing a book on NT giving and EVERY EXAMPLE from the poorest of the poor to the richest of the rich is an example of EXTREME GENEROSITY! 

I will NOT preach a message that robs the poor of the blessings of God found in faithful giving.

Fran Pultro, Senior Pastor at Calvary Chapel King's Highway
Top Contributor

John Deacon, I greatly appreciate your remarks. Yet I do not believe "the primary issue in our time pertaining to accountability is" those who have as opposed to those who have not. 

It certainly is huge, & it is personal. It ought to come from the heart (or at least a sense of conscience), & not be legislated. 

Since it IS a matter of the heart, the primary issue is still Christ, Who alone can change hearts. 

Sadly, it plays out on a social level. But it cannot be addressed without addressing the accountability of the poor who are poor due to laziness or a sense/attitude of entitlement. 

Both sides of this "coin" are critical to a society that functions to the benefit of all.

Dr. John Boyd, Board Chairman at Calling All the Nations

Being poor in spirit is the quality in a person that opens heaven's door. It describes one who recognizes his need of grace. He recognizes that without the grace of God he will remain forever poor in spirit. His recognition of his undone posture before the Lord is what appeals to the Lord. He is not proud, but rather, humble...poor in spirit...needy of the grace that he recognizes as God's great gift through Jesus Christ. "Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time." "You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE. 
Those He exalts will reign with Him in the millennial kingdom to come. Theirs is the kingdom of God.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Dr. John:
How true your statement is - but who in blazes is poor in spirit? It's kinda like "Who is humble?" The moment I say 'I am" I'm lying. Pride deceives entirely. It is the one sin which by definition we can never know the measure of - especially in ourselves.
That's why I like Luke's take on 'blessed are the poor' - without the 'in spirit' part. We know who the poor are. The ones who have to pray for daily bread because they've got none.
Unfortunately the 'poor in spirit' qualification has many Christians interpreting 'blessed are the poor' as though it means 'blessed are the deserving poor.'
No such qualifier exists, anymore than there is for any of us a qualifier to receive God's grace, mercy and forgiveness.
'When I was naked, you clothed me...' The 'why' explaining how he became naked is never given. He may be naked because he was robbed; he may be naked because he gambled all his possessions away; he may be naked because in a drunken stupor, he took off all his clothes. 
The point is - not how it was that he was naked, but that someone cared enough to clothe him, whom Jesus calls 'blessed.' That's all that really matters!

Dr. John Boyd, Board Chairman at Calling All the Nations

John, are you Reformed in your theology (Sorry, but I don't know how else to ask!)?

Charles Davidson, Pastoral Counselor & Psychotherapist, Blue Ridge Pastoral Counseling and Consultation; Editor, Lifeturnings.com

Yes, to both Johns, yes.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Dear Dr. John:
I am glad Charles has answered for me. I honestly don't know.
My favourite theologians are Bonhoeffer, Aquinas and John Howard Yoder if that helps.

Karl Goodfellow, CEO at Safety Net Prayer Ministry

Three months ago I started praying and writing E-Prayer to a few friends, those few friends have evolved to close to 200, and the list keeps growing. Every morning I know they are waiting to receive my prayers and read their E-Prayer. In a recent conversation I quoted a statistic I heard a long time ago that 75% of our prayer, journaling time deals with our own personal problems, struggles, ups and downs. Because I communicate with people I am praying for I know what is happening in their lives. Using the E-Prayer and my prayer board my problems seem smaller, and in spite of the problems not going away, I realize how rich my life is. 
Try it you might like it 
karl

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

2 Corinthians 8:1-5 
"(1) Now, brethren, we wish to make known to you the grace of God which has been given in the churches of Macedonia, (2) that in a great ordeal of affliction their abundance of joy and their deep poverty overflowed in the wealth of their liberality. (3) For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability, they gave of their own accord, (4) begging us with much urging for the favor of participation in the support of the saints, (5) and this, not as we had [d]expected, but they first gave themselves to the Lord and to us by the will of God." 

This is an example of how God views things... definitely different than those who limit Him to moving within the confines of our limited human understanding.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

I think we're missing the point of Ms. McEntyre's article. 
The issue isn't about the poor per se. It isn't directed at the poor. It is about injustice - one injustice in particular and how we as 'Christians in the Age of Hunger' should be responding. 
Quoting from her article, the injustice she focuses on is: 

Exploiting the Poor to Benefit the Rich 
She writes: "When we begin to read about how we get our food, for instance, it doesn’t take long to encounter the sobering truth that the people who plant and harvest much of the food we obtain through vast networks of chain stores are often underpaid for long hours of backbreaking labor and have no health benefits. Nor does it take long, if we bother to inquire, to find out which companies are subjecting workers in poor countries to substandard working conditions, including squalid housing, no job security or direct abuse, in order to provide inexpensive clothing to North American consumers and large profits to stockholders." 

The point she is making is as old as the prophet Amos and very much in evidence in the first generation of the church. The Apostle James writes: 
"The treasure you have accumulated will stand as evidence against you on the day of judgment. For listen! Hear the cries of the field workers whom you have cheated of their pay. The wages you held back cry out against you. James 5:3b,4 

The article GENTLY takes aim at those 'holding back' (i.e. people of whom she is one) - content to see people work in deplorable work situations, receiving inadequate pay, confined to squalid living situations eating food not fit for dogs. 
I say GENTLY because Ms. McEntyre is gracious enough to assume that the wealthy are exploiting the poor unknowingly. That once aware of our transgression, we'll buck up and change. 

But then the question becomes: 'How do we change?' - to which the remainder of her article is devoted. 
She writes: "Learning for the first time about injustices we hadn’t been aware of can be a little like throwing a new chip in a kaleidoscope: one new chip changes the whole design. And one new fact can sometimes change our whole understanding of, say, the “American way of life,” or of what’s “normal” or “harmless,” or of how we understand what it means to be a person of faith. We will likely find that some of our most basic assumptions may need to be reevaluated." 

As much as we're inclined whenever the subject of poverty comes up, to get sidetracked with issues like welfare fraud and the indolent poor, and the waste of government sponsored social programs, that's not her point. The article like most prophecy doesn't allow us 'to get off the hook.' 'You da man' was what the prophet Nathan said to King David. And because David wouldn't let himself off the hook, he truly changed. 
Same lesson here. 'We da ones' or at least rich Christians like I am are. 
So what are we going to do about it? 
Blaming the poor doesn't count.

Tuesday, February 4, 2014

The heart of ministry

This exchange begun elsewhere - as do most of these discussions, but had landed on whether ministers have to 'earn the right to be heard.'
It started with the discussion leader asking one of the more vocal combatants to step aside.
He didn't...

Christopher Aune, Certified Life Coach, Counselor and Consultant at Christopher Aune Group
Top Contributor

Robert Dallman - As the initiator and facilitator of this discussion, I point out that your comments are consistently belligerent, offensive, and are inconsistent with any point or attitude being put forward by anyone else in this thread. You are just looking for a fight and deliberately misunderstand people to that end. I have found that you copy the identical vitriolic responses into multiple discussions without regard for the flow of conversation on any of them. Therefore, I invite you to leave this thread at this time. Thank you.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

Hi Christopher Aune,

You have made comments that call into question the INTEGRITY of the Bible, God's Word. It has been you that has invited response!

As long as the Lord keeps the door open for me in this forum, I will NOT let efforts to DISCREDIT the Bible go unanswered.

I will NOT be leaving this discussion until God closes the door to me! If God closes the door, I am fine with that since He is in control.
_______________

Jude 1:3 - "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH which was once delivered unto the saints."

Romans 10:17 - "So then FAITH COMETH BY HEARING, and hearing by THE WORD OF GOD."

2 Timothy 3:16 - "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Doug Greenwold, Senior Teaching Fellow at Preserving Bible Times, Inc.

Robert,

I would commend Acts 1:1 for your consideration. There Luke characterizes Jesus pedagogy as "Do and Teach." If each word in Scripture is inspired, it has to follow that the sequence of those words is likewise inspired. There is much pastoral wisdom to be gained by looking at the sequence of words, phrases and thoughts in Scripture. Thus, Luke did not reverse those words and make it "teach and do" which seems to be the preferred Western way of doing things. Or "tell and maybe do" which seems to be the reality of Westernized teaching. In other words, from Luke's perspective, the genius of Jesus was how He taught. Do something first, then talk/teach about it later. That's exactly what happens in Luke. Jesus calls His first disciples in Luke 5 and then systematically exposes them to touching a leper, forgiving and healing a paralytic and calling of Levi. All radical acts. It isn't until Luke 8 that Jesus starts to do some teaching.

That's one of the things "wrong" about the Western evangelical church if you want to look at it that way. Our teaching pedagogy is mostly "teach (first) and maybe do" while Jesus' approach was "Do (first) and (then) teach" about the experience you just had. At least that is how Luke saw it as a pattern and captured the essence of that in Acts 1:1

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Doug:
I am thinking it was Ravi Zacharias who identified that the Jews approach to 'truth' was unique in antiquity. Whereas the Greeks taught that truth came with education and enlightenment, the Hebrews' approach was that truth came in doing what God asks of us.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

Hi Doug Greenwold

You said quote: "Robert, I would commend Acts 1:1 for your consideration."

My response: That is one of my favorite passages. I have been "doing" and "teaching" for three decades now. I won't go into the doors that God has allowed me to serve Him in... He is my judge.

I don't believe that it is EVER acceptable to REJECT truth, no matter who or how it is delivered. If that were the case, we could each REJECT anything that we don't like, since other than Jesus, no messenger is perfect.

Doug Greenwold, Senior Teaching Fellow at Preserving Bible Times, Inc.

Robert,

The Adversary quoted Scripture to Jesus. It's a good thing Jesus rejected his use of Scripture. I only point that out from your comment "I don't believe that it is EVER acceptable to REJECT truth, no matter who or how it is delivered." More on this thought later.

Doug

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

Hi Doug,

Yes, satan quoted Scripture out of context. We know that from the Bible descriptions of him (i.e. father of lies, etc) and the fact that Jesus corrected his mis-use of Scripture.

I do not believe that there is EVER a legitimate time to REJECT valid, in context, truth.

Sorry if I did not make myself clear enough.

Doug Greenwold, Senior Teaching Fellow at Preserving Bible Times, Inc.

John,

That's pretty much right. Observant Judaism in the first century was a behavioral religion. The acid test was what you did. It was not a conceptual, philosophical religion. For the observant Jew, God is what God does. Thoughts of omnipresence, transcendent, etc., where way beyond them. A biblical Jew would never ask a man if he loved his wife. He would follow him around for a couple of weeks observing the man's interactions with his wife and by closely observing dozens of interactions he would know the answer to his question. A biblical Jew knew that people had two standards - that which they live out and that which they espouse. As a result, he had no interest in what a person espoused, only in what he did. The early Quakers in America had something akin to that same notion. They would say: It matters not what a man says; just watch how he treats his dog.

That's one of the issues with these kinds of discussion forums. I have no idea whether what I read written by others is actually even lived out in any meaningful way by those who espouse them.

In Westernizing Christianity, we are much more into the conceptual. We look at the Apostles creed as if it was a menu of conceptual thoughts we need/should agree to. And if we check off enough boxes, we then conclude, "Why, I must be a Christian." These days we call that intellectual assent.

Two of the salient characteristics of a disciple of Jesus in the first century were submission and emulation. That is still true today. Those mandatory attributes tend to get lost in the intellectual assent posture we take toward the faith. Not to be misunderstood, it is crucial to believe in the Trinity, virgin birth, resurrection, etc. But as James points out, there does have to be congruence between what we espouse and what we live out. If not, we are just carnal Christians broadcasting our clanging cymbal thoughts, even if we quote Scripture from the KJV.

Just a thought.


Doug Greenwold, Senior Teaching Fellow at Preserving Bible Times, Inc.

Robert,

I'm with you on that one and you replied as I hoped you would. You see, it's a little more involved than just a blanket statement. Already you are seeing some of the qualifiers - valid, in context truth. How best to discern the difference between valid and invalid truth. When has a passage been entirely put back into its first-century contextual, original meaning, and when has it been only partially contextually restored? Paul's challenge was to "accurately handle the word of truth." Well, that suggests there certainly must be some inaccurate ways to do that. We are admonished to "bring the truth in love." So how best to respond to truth not brought in love, or truth brought in microwave, token love? Or someone's version of truth brought in anger that comes with a putdown?

I like Young Life's motto - earn the right to bring the truth. That's another way of saying be sure you invest grace time into the live of another before you bring the truth. Also implicit in that is that the Young Life person has repeatedly demonstrated that he cares for him or her, that he recognizes the importance of establishing a relationship with that person.

So when someone in a forum like this feels the need to respond to something I said, I am very much aware they have no idea who I am, what I am about, what my journey has been, what my current issues are, etc., in short they have no context for me. Furthermore, I have no sense they even care about me. They've made no investment in my life.

Luther puts this nicely into focus in his preface to Romans when he develops that a "righteous" act, one pleasing to God, is the right thing, done at the right time, in the right spirit, and for the right motivation. That means the WHAT is done is as important as the HOW it was done. Do you think that all the "truth" that comes to you and me from others meets that yardstick? Hardly. Anything less than that is not God-honoring. So how are we to approach, receive, that kind of "truth?"

As Peter Sczarro (sp?) develops, there is no spiritual maturity if there is not emotional and relational maturity. So how am I to receive someone's version of "truth," even if they quote Scripture, when it is obvious from their content that relational and emotional maturity is not their strong suit?

And when someone starts to quote Scripture verse after Scripture verse to me, I have no idea how they understand those verse whether they properly understand it. So yes, I very much factor who the person is that is bringing their version of truth to me. All of this has to be weighted, pondered and factored in as you then sit at the feet of Jesus and ask the Spirit to knit this all together in how He desires this to speak to me today. That's the issue - do you hear the voice of the Spirit in what comes your way?

When all is said and done, this is about discernment. Jesus had perfect discernment. He knew all about each person He interacted with. That's why He was always appropriate in His questions and His comments. Were that our batting averages approached His? It's why I like to have people with the Spiritual Gift of discernment in my life to help me weight what this all means for the journey.

A few thoughts...and probably too much rambling.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Doug:
Thank you for your 2 excellent posts. They are keepers!
I especially like your reference to 'earning the right to share the truth.'
As Jesus said: "I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it." The how it is said is just as important as what is said.
It reminds me of Ezekiel, after having had this incredible vision of God's glory, and then sent by God to confront his Jewish brethren about their rebellion against Him while in exile, being so overwhelmed with their dire condition when he catches up with them that he is speechless for 7 days. There was no way he could accurately speak God's truth to them, without his being deeply aware and overwhelmed by their circumstances. Immersed in their condition, he could then speak with authority to them.
The most radical instance of this is the 30 years Jesus waited in preparation for ministry. He became so saturated with the human condition that when he spoke he could speak to it entirely - with both blessing and woe, to its brokenness and its redemption.
As I wrote in a previous post, I believe that the incredible dissonance between what we white folk have preached to our Native Peoples and the lamentable way we've treated them has meant our losing the right to share the truth with them.
Fortunately there have been people of the Gospel among their own who have emerged to advance the Kingdom, but for the most part it has been without our help.
As others have said, more articulately and passionately than I - Kurt for example - our clinging to American values which are at great dissonance to gospel values, is undermining our right to speak to people without American values - Arabs for instance...
Hence the need for us to separate the wheat from the chaff, the whole kernel of the gospel from all the pseudo crap we come up with to make it palatable within the Empire we live.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

TRUTH is TRUTH! Feel free to justify rejecting it if you like.
_____________

Here are some of the MANY Bible examples of NOT earning the right to be heard. After I post this, I will wait for someone to provide some examples (as clear as these) of people in the Bible who DID earn the right to be heard...
_____________

* Jesus' relationship building efforts for Simon and Andrew - FOLLOW ME
Matthew 4:18-19 - "And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. (19) And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men."
_____________

* Jesus' relationship building efforts for Matthew - FOLLOW ME
Luke 5:27 - "And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me."
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* Peter's relationship building efforts for the crowd on Pentecost
Acts 2:13-15 - "Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. (14) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day."
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I would really like to see a clear Bible example of this modern concept of earning the right to be heard. Does anyone have any CLEAR examples?

Norma Pastor, Author/Producer at First Stone Productions LLC/The Young Alchemists

I firmly believe that what is wrong with Christianity is that Pastors and adults in general are underestimating the fact that the future of humanity/Christianity will be in the hands of our children our future leaders. Instead of wasting the time and boring the children with dogmatic ideas, we should go back to the teachings of Jesus and teach and plant in the heart of our children the basis of Christianity. Love and respect for themselves, this planet and humanity. Christianity has become like a war of egos. I am sure if Master Jesus could come now and preach the way he use to preach and teach, it will be the very Christians who will crucify him. I am just a humble person, I have not memorized every word of the Bible but I believe in the original teaching of Jesus and those teachings had nothing to do with the type of behavior, hatred and separatism of today's Christianity. I am giving my humble opinion with much love and respect for every one. If we want Christianity to be la the Christianity of Jesus, lets educate and inspire our children and teach them Love and respect. We are what we think, if we think War, we will create War if we think love and respect for each other, (Real teachings of Jesus) we will create World Peace and a better understanding among Christians and people of other religions.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

Matthew 10:34 - "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

John 16:33 - "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."


John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Dear Robert:

The three scriptures you give, with study, all provide example of the 'earned right to be heard.' I will comment on the first and I will leave it to you to draw similar parallels is the other scriptures you've given.

* Jesus' relationship building efforts for Simon and Andrew - FOLLOW ME
Matthew 4:18-19 - "And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. (19) And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men."

We know from reading the fist chapter of John, that the Matthew account is not the first instance that either Simon or Andrew learned about Jesus. Andrew was one of John the Baptist's disciples and had learned from him who Jesus was in advance of his first meeting him.
Pointed in Jesus direction by the Baptist, Andrew brings his brother Simon along saying 'we have found the Messiah.' Jesus earns the right to heard by both Andrew and Simon, by having his way prepared for him by the Baptist.
The mere fact that a prophet went 'to prepare the way for the Lord' stresses that 'earning the right to be heard' is not just good psychology, but fundamental to the way God works.

Not only is this principle scriptural, it is like all truths practical and integral to all meaningful relationships.
A husband earns the right to instruct his wife about housekeeping, if he also does housekeeping. A wife can question her husband's use of money, if she is the one not spending it all.
Jesus can ask that his disciples sell everything, give to the poor and follow him because he has done the same himself.

Which has me thinking Robert, that you have inadvertently landed on the answer to what's wrong with Christianity. (Aside - Ed - by Christianity I mean Christianity as evidenced by the way we as Christians live and not by the perfect and holy gospel of which you speak)...

What's wrong with it is that we think we can proclaim it without living it. That somehow the hypocrisy of our living something different than what we preach will go unnoticed.
Getting the words right is important but they become totally ineffective and inauthentic when our lives are visibly at odds with our message. The world notices, God notices and the odour is foul. Our hypocrisy robs our message of its vitality. Our salt loses its savour.
That is what is wrong with Christianity. The salt has lost its savour.

How do we regain it? Fortunately the repentance we relied on to respond to Christ in the first place is ever to be the air we breathe. We regain our first love by repentance. Day by day by day...

There is a great story Philip Yancey tells about Mahatma Gandhi that applies here.
A mother of a highly over active 12 year old son brings her son to meet Gandhi in the hope he can say something to him that will cause to change his ways.
Gandhi asks the mother what she discerns is the source of her son's hyperactivity and the mother replies by saying he eats too much sugar. 'Tell my son to stop eating sugar,' she tells Gandhi and Gandhi replies that she is to bring her boy again to see him in a week.
'But can't you speak to him now?' she pleads. To no avail. Gandhi sends the 2 of them away.
A week later the mother brings back her son, Gandhi calls her boy to speak with him and says: 'Son, I want you to stop eating sugar.'
The mother looks at Gandhi bewildered.
'Couldn't you have told him that a week ago and saved me the time and expense of coming to see you again?'
'No,' Gandhi replied, 'because until we met last week, I too was eating sugar.'
Gandhi knew, as all people of wisdom know, that in order to really teach, you can't ask of another what you aren't doing yourself. It's when you are doing what you ask of others, then you earn the right to be heard.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

Sorry John Deacon,

Your ideas are not supported by Scripture. Jesus did NOT spend a bunch of time with Andrew, Peter or Matthew BEFORE calling them to FOLLOW HIM.

Jesus spent LOTS of time with them AFTER they followed Him... NOT before!
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Peter did NOT spend LOTS of time earning the right to preach to the crowd on Pentecost.
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Philip did NOT spend LOTS of time earning the right to preach to the Samaritan or the Ethiopian eunuch.
______________

Paul did NOT spend LOTS of time earning the right to preach to Greek philosophers on Mars Hill.
______________

Steven did NOT spend LOTS of time earning the right to preach to the crowd that stoned him.
______________

What is wrong with modern Christianity is MANY HOLD THE BIBLE IN VERY LOW REGARD... and make it say what they WANT it to say, instead of what it actually says.

2 Timothy 4:3 - "For the time will come when they WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE; but WANTING TO HAVE THEIR EARS TICKLED, they will ACCUMULATE for themselves TEACHERS IN ACCORDANCE TO THEIR OWN DESIRES,"

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Robert:

I think you're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.
Do you honestly think that Jesus didn't earn the right to be heard? Either by God or by man? Why would Luke record in the years leading to his ministry - Jesus grew in favour with God and with people?

Hebrews 5: 7,8 insists:
"In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard for his godly fear. Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered..."

Perhaps I need to explain why 'earning the right to be heard' means?
If I explain it right, maybe, just maybe you might be willing to concede a little...

'Earning the right' is the principle that before we can speak with authority, we must be given authority. To be given authority means experiencing what it is to be 'schooled by God.' It means there is depth in your words because like Jesus, you 'have learned obedience by the things you have suffered...'

Matthew, Simon, Andrew indeed all the first disciples said 'yes' to following Jesus:
- because of the way prepared in advance by John
- because of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness
- because of Jesus being baptized by John
- because Jesus had found favour with God, and
- because their hearts and minds had been prepared by the Holy Spirit to receive him.

The Ethiopian eunuch heard Philip because the Spirit had the eunuch reading Isaiah 53 and miraculously brought Philip alongside him at the very moment the eunuch was reading it. Had he instead been reading the first 8 chapters of 1 Chronicles, there likely would have been no request by the eunuch to be baptized.

Last story if and if you still disagree I will leave you to bicker on your own.
I knew this woman who tragically lost her 21 year old son suddenly in a car accident that also killed two others.
I was speaking to her 4 months after and asked her if there was someone she had met who had been able to really speak into her life given the depth of her loss.
'Funny you should ask,' she responded. 'I have grown up in the church, know at least 2 dozen pastors really well and although what they've said was well intentioned, I never had the sense any of them understood what I was going through.'
'So have you found anyone?' I asked.
'Of all people, a Dominican priest,' she replied. 'I'm not even Catholic, but I met him in the neighbourhood library and he could immediately sense how hurting I was.'
'I can't remember all he told me,' she recounted, 'but the words he shared were mixed with such depth of understanding and anguish, I immediately thought, finally, my agony is now shared.'
'I learned later that the priest fasts and prays a lot,' she continued, 'that he visits the elderly who have no other visitors and volunteers at the local AIDS hospice.'
The priest had earned the right to speak into her life by how he had been prepared in advance. He was truly a disciple. He had learned obedience by the things he had suffered and 'earned the right' to speak deeply into her condition. Knowing a life of sacrifice, he understood what was being asked of her.

It was Henri Nouwen who coined the phrase 'the Wounded Healer' to describe Jesus.
He's right.
It is when we speak out of our wounds, that we begin to touch the heart of human brokenness and pain.
Peter spoke at Pentecost from the wounds of his own betrayal and desertion. He could finger his fellow countrymen for having crucified the Prince and Author of life not because he was an innocent by-stander, but as one who had shared in their crime.
The way to 'earning the right to be heard' ironically is two-fold. We can be heard because we authentically live what we preach and we can be heard because we are implicated with those we are preaching to, regardless of their crime.

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

John Deacon, 

Please give some Bible references that validate what is commonly called "Friendship Evangelism" today... or "earning the right to be heard". 

Did you read any of what I posted from the Scriptures? 

Perhaps you don't understand what is meant by "earning the right to be heard"? 

All of your examples are God working in people's lives preparing them to hear the message (or not hear it and stone people). None of this is the preacher spending time getting to know someone FIRST BEFORE they preached the message. 

If you want to spend time "earning the right to be heard"... go for it. Just don't tell me its all over the Bible when I cannot see EVEN ONE CLEAR instance of what is proposed by modern Christians. 

You take time... I plan to... 

Mark 16:15 - "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Robert: 

Thanks for your toned down response. 
It helps that you interpret 'earning the right to be heard' with friendship evangelism. It is not my interpretation. As has come up before: sola scriptura does not mean sola understanding - a frequent flaw when communication is something less than face to face. 
When Ezekiel spent 7 days with his people in exile before reprimanding them on God's behalf for their disobedience, he was in my vernacular 'earning the right to be heard.' 
See Ezekiel 3:15. 
When Jesus asked the woman at the well for a glass of water he was 'earning the right' to speak with her about real thirst. 
When a pastor meets in advance with a family he has never met before, because their son has just tragically died of an overdose, he is 'earning the right' to be present to the family through their excruciating period of loss. It's not about friendship, it is about becoming acquainted with another's struggle in advance of real ministry. 

No doubt there are moments, rare moments - where we are asked to speak to people in advance of knowing what they are going through. We must rely on the Holy Spirit to inform us and speak accordingly. There are certainly instances in the Bible when this occurs, but it is rare. 
Thinking of Peter in advance of his message to Cornelius...can you imagine what he might have shared if he hadn't had the vision? The vision gave Peter the right to speak with authority to Cornelius. But even with the vision, Peter's message begins first with a 'getting to know you exchange' between his people and Cornelius' people since customarily Jews had no dealings with Gentiles concerning matters of faith. 
And so too on most occasions when we are asked to speak, we are required as part of our preparation to know our audience. Otherwise we may find ourselves speaking King James English to people who don't know the language. 

As St. Francis so aptly prayed: 
'O Master, Grant that I may never seek 
So much to be consoled as to console; 
To be understood as to understand; 

To be loved as to love...'

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

Again John Deacon, 

I am looking for Bible examples of what most people mean today when they say we must "earn the right to be heard"... 

I cannot find ANY!

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

For whatever reason, I find myself reflecting on the most unbiblical of statements: 
SHOW ME THE MONEY! 
a phrase made famous by Tom Cruise in the movie, 'Jerry Maquire.' 

I suppose the scriptural equivalent is: 
'I am looking for Bible examples' - a phrase we readily associate with Robert Dallmann, but in fact a phrase most of us rely on to validate right or wrong, true or false, 'of God' or 'not of God.' 
As well we should. 
But there are limitations. 

Imagine if you would, if the criteria had been applied to any one of Jacob, Moses, Rahab, Gideon, Samson, Jephthah, Ruth. 
We would have found no bible verse to validate a thief being one of the patriarchs, a murderer to lead God's people out of Egypt, a prostitute to help bring down the walls of Jericho, a coward to overcome the hordes of Midian, a strongman given to riddles and prostitutes to bring down the Philistine's temple on their heads, the son of a prostitute to again rescue God's people from their oppressors, and a Moabite to be great-grandmother to Israel's greatest warrior king. 

When you think of it, God rarely does the same thing twice. He told Noah to build an ark and told Moses to build an ark but clearly the two arks were not one and the same. 
He told Moses when his people were complaining of thirst to strike the rock. But 40 years later when his people were grumbling for the same reason, He told Moses to speak to the same rock. God's response to the same sin of his people so differed that even Moses didn't get it! 

In a single question what I am getting at is: 
'When God does something new, will we know if our only criteria is biblical precedent?' 
Remembering how divided the religious were about Jesus: (from John 7:40-43) 

When they heard these words, some of the people said, “This is really the prophet.” Others said, “This is the Christ.” But some said, “Is the Christ to come from Galilee? 
Has not the scripture said that the Christ is descended from David, and comes from Bethlehem, the village where David was?” 
So there was a division among the people over him... 

It begs the question for those of us who insist on chapter and verse: Will we know it when His Spirit moves in our time? 

Or will we like the Pharisees miss it because we are so pre-occupied with the 'gnat'tering' refrain of 'I am looking for Bible examples...'

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.

John Deacon, 

You said quote: "Imagine if you would, if the criteria had been applied to any one of Jacob, Moses, Rahab, Gideon, Samson, Jephthah, Ruth. 
We would have found no bible verse to validate a thief being one of the patriarchs, a murderer to lead God's people out of Egypt, a prostitute to help bring down the walls of Jericho, a coward to overcome the hordes of Midian, a strongman given to riddles and prostitutes to bring down the Philistine's temple on their heads, the son of a prostitute to again rescue God's people from their oppressors, and a Moabite to be great-grandmother to Israel's greatest warrior king" 

My response: Sorry, wrong again. All those people (at least the ones that God speaks well of) were repentant. We can find LOTS of Scripture about how God deals with repentance. 
_______________ 

Acts 17:10-11 
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 

A statement was made that says "we must earn the right to be heard". 

According to the passage above... we are supposed to SEARCH the SCRIPTURES to validate any preaching or teaching. 

I will adhere to what the Bible says and search the Bible. Since I CANNOT find any examples to validate this claim... I am asking you and others to provide such examples. 

If none exist, which is my belief... I will HOLD to the Word of God. 


Sorry if my adherence to the Bible is problematic... but if it is... the problem will not go away.

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Robert: 
You can only judge because you have the advantage of looking backward, of hearing the story after it's been told. 
But imagine any of God's leaders at the time they emerged whose example and portrait was without biblical precedent. 
It would be like the next Billy Graham being someone who is gay! 
We might discover after the fact that he was repentant. But that would be too late, like the Pharisees learning after crucifying Jesus that he had actually been born in Bethlehem and not in Nazareth as they had thought. 
Biblical verification works well when we get to judge people after they're gone, after they've made their way into our history books. 
But from Stephen onwards, church history is strewn with the corpses of godly men and women who we don't revere until well after the fact! 
We who know our Bibles from cover to cover, have tragically a repeated pre-disposition to kill God's messengers when we can't find their look-a-like in the Bible!.

Christopher Aune, Certified Life Coach, Counselor and Consultant at Christopher Aune Group
Top Contributor

John -- I thought this comment of yours was so to the point that I'd post it again.... 

I have found the past day's exchange quite thought provoking. 
There is Jesus, the Word of God and there is the Bible, the word of God - some contending they are one and the same and others insisting that Jesus takes precedence over the Bible, and because he does we best not make the Bible an idol. 
Clearly when Jesus said 'But I say unto you...' and overruled the laws of Moses particular to retribution, how deals with one's enemies, the Sabbath etc - he was insisting a pre-eminence over what we'd call 'sola scriptura.' 
So how does Christ speak to us today? 
For those insisting 'sola' scriptura' is the only way, problems arise when sola scriptura isn't complemented by 'sola exegesis.' We can agree that the Bible is the word of God, but what good is that if our interpretations of what the Bible means are anything but 'sola?'

Ed Considine -Trinity College Graduate-Jerusalem University-

Robert, 

Let me jump in. You will never convert John. Do you see how well organized he is in his obvious unbelief. He shows no faith in the God inspired literal interpretation of God's word. He does not believe that almighty God is able to give a record of His Only begotten Son. This is called The doctrine of Jesus of which he claims to be a disciple. But Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds 
The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. 2 Jn 9-11 

I am talking to you Robert, John will not nor can he hear what I just posted. 

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

Thanks Ed!
I always feel affirmed when you jump in.

Ed Considine -Trinity College Graduate-Jerusalem University-

John, 

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 
The Holy Bible : King James Version. electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA : Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995, S. Is 53:1

Christopher Aune, Certified Life Coach, Counselor and Consultant at Christopher Aune Group
Top Contributor

Hmmm... I can understand why Jesus wrote nothing down, and why he left it open to "let those who have ears, hear."

Some have great faith, but no substance. Some have great substance, but are caught in the world, and have little practice. Indeed, it is hard for anyone to enter in with the Pharisees standing at the door and turning us away, and the world happy to have us fully engaged.

In case anyone is interested, here is a more deeply presented version of my perspective: http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Way-Jesus-Christopher-Aune/dp/1491214627/

Robert Dallmann, Director at ChristLife, Inc.
Top Contributor

SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES... 

Acts 17:10-11 
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 

God says test preachers by searching the Scriptures... 
...people say, Look around you... 

I fully intend to stick with the Word of God!

John Deacon, VP at Deacon Insurance Agencies Limited

It was Dietrich Bonhoeffer who would encourage his students to locate themselves in God's story rather than to try and squeeze God into their own.

Imagine yourself to be in attendance at the stoning of Stephen. All you have heard about him is that he's been 'heard speaking blasphemous words against Moses and God...saying that this 'Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place, and will change the customs delivered to them by Moses.' (Acts 6:11,14)
Presiding over the stoning is an up and coming biblical scholar named Saul who has been schooled at the feet of Gamaliel and is known everywhere as 'a Pharisee of the Pharisees', 'without fault in his observance of the law.'

Stephen has preached a biblically based message, even though Saul has been shaking his head in disgust with his every word. 
But then everything turns against Stephen when he blames his audience for being "stiff-necked people," "uncircumcised in heart and ears," "always resisting the Holy Spirit." 
As the crowd picks up stones to kill him he utters what the scriptures decry as blasphemy "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God." There had been a man only months before who had been crucified for making a similar statement and now it was Stephen's turn.

Since there would have been more scriptural substantiation for stoning Stephen, than for accepting his message, I ask you: whose side would you have been on? 
On the side of those who knew every 'jot and tittle of the law' or with the renegade preacher whose only allies that day were a bunch of former hookers and simpletons unschooled in the law?

I can't see myself on Stephen's side, anymore than I can see myself as the publican in the parable Jesus told about the publican and the Pharisee. 
I am the elder brother in the story of the prodigal, the one who has stuck by his father's side for years, sacrificing my own agenda for his and never wasting a dime of his hard earned money. I haven't cavorted with the promiscuous or the druggies, I've been a good husband, a good father and most of all, a devoted son of my father.
But when the prodigal comes home to be welcomed with open arms by my dad who I have slaved for, where am I? Missing the party! Missing my dad doing his redemption thing!

Here's the thing that not one of us is immune from, even if we have memorized every word of the Bible.
We can miss Him no matter how well schooled we are. Saul missed him and but for a blinding encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, he would have missed him entirely had he relied only on the scriptures. To see Him, to not miss Him, knowing his word is not enough. It helps, but it can just as easily blind. But for the Holy Spirit and great humility we miss him.

Draw a line in the sand and more often than not, God is on the other side.

That's why the scripture constantly insists on humility - 'humble yourself and draw near to God' - which means among things we are never right, if we can only see God on our side.