Dave M. said quote: "I think it would be best for the interests of this particular thread that we share our experiences in leading homosexuals to Christ, how we did it (without fighting or fleeing, as the thread title suggests)."
My response: If you scroll up through this thread you will see that I spent four years in full-time ministry in NY City. One of our outreaches was to an AIDS hospital. The only way people left that hospital was either dead... or by a miracle healing.
God used us to lead many AIDS victims to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. On one of these occasions God allowed me to share the Gospel with a dying homosexual... who repented... received Jesus and four days later was IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD!
NO magic formula for building a "relationship" was necessary... NO spending time "fellowshipping" with the unbeliever was needed... NO months and months of "friendship evangelism" was mandated...
JUST THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION... THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST!
It is no wonder so few see people come to Christ... MANY think that the Gospel is WEAK and LACKS POWER to radically change lives!
Dear Robert:
Not to be trite, but death bed repentances only mean as Christian witnesses we have to show up. It is rare when death confronts someone face to face, that the hope of the resurrection isn't taken, if articulated simply. Friendship isn't required when there isn't time for it.
But most relationships begin somewhere other than in life and death situations, when most of us, taking the 12 disciples as an example, take days if not years to come to faith. In such situations friendship is essential. Jesus is 'the friend of sinners', even in advance of our becoming repentant sinners. It is his kindness which leads us to repentance.
'While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.' In this is the complete mystery and marvel of his love.
I agree with you that the gospel is strong, but the transformation is not always instantaneous. We rely - those of us in the slow lane - on his patience and his long-suffering, which surprisingly enough was true of Paul who wrote near the end of his life:
"For that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life." I Timothy 1:16.
If Jesus had to be patient with Paul and sustain him with friends like Timothy, then friendship is a requirement for sinners and saints alike, so that no one gives up on the hope of God's love.
James 4:4 - "You ADULTERESSES, do you not know that FRIENDSHIP WITH THE WORLD IS HOSTILITY TOWARD GOD? Therefore whoever WISHES TO BE A FRIEND of the world MAKES HIMSELF AN ENEMY OF GOD."
My response: I used to be God's ENEMY a long time ago... I have NO DESIRE to MAKE MYSELF His ENEMY now!
You desire friendship with the world, John Deacon... how does it feel to MAKE YOURSELF God's ENEMY?
I have read the article and do not fault David for writing it and I guess what we are trying to arrive at is some balanced view of what course of action the believing church should take. I do not believe the answer is caving into the social gospel. On the other hand I can see where the non-believing world has come to label us as "hate-mongers" or whatever term that want to use. Part of that is the world "suppressing the truth in unrighteousness" and part of it is due to the fact that the church has not always spoken "the truth in love". Trying to do damage control now is sort of like trying to do damage control on the recent chemical spill in that Colorado river that's recently in the news. This moral decline has been flowing down river a very long an now is picking up real momentum. I have been in the ministry for almost 35 years and I been in the church all my life. I heard way back in the 60's that we were moving toward a post-Christian nation. How did we get here? Let us not forget that it started not with the world, but with the church. In the turn of the 19th century ( you church historians will know better than me) we allowed German Liberal theology to get a foot hold in our seminaries. Theology that cast doubt upon the written revelation of God and so we began to instill into a new generation the question, "hath God really said?" and we began to de-evaluate absolute truth. Absolute truth became existential truth, because of the existentialism inherent in the new "orthodoxy". This move away from absolute truth tore away at the very foundation of Biblical theology and God's revelation of Himself in His Word. The centrality of the gospel was no longer the message of Christ and His real death on the cross for a real fallen human nature, but now it became purely about social justice, and the human condition and our responsibility to cure the human condition. Throw darwism in the mix and you now have a world that is evolving into something beyond the necessity for a personal creator God. Hence we worship the creature rather than the creator. We have pushed a personal God out of our schools, out of our halls of justice and even out of our churches and now we are experiencing the "recompense" of our actions. Look at the history of Christianity in Europe we have moved in the same direction. You would be hard pressed to find more than a hand full of Bible believing churches in any major European city. To hold the line we have tried to shore up the flood by overcompensating with harsh words and hardline stands but now it is too little too late and only comes across as crass and hateful. One should read Francis Schaefer's "Church at the End of the 20th Century and compare it to David's article. Of course ultimately the stance we should take in every case is to trust in promises of an almighty sovereign God, not compromise and consistently speak the absolute truth in genuine love
The gospel is both personal and social. We do the gospel and the church great disservice whenever we try to sever the two. The sermon on the mount has both personal and social ramifications. It not only shapes how we do life individually but communally.
America has never been a Christian nation. It has been a nation where there have been incredible periods of Christian influence, but never Christian. Even as you lament the decline in orthodoxy, you are falsely esteeming a time and society as 'Christian' when slavery was in its height, child labour common, the oppression of the poor and women widespread and the common labourer woefully underpaid: symptoms of a nation anything but Christian.
No nation is Christian nor can be. The kingdom of God is delineated by something other than geographic boundaries, border crossings and racial and ethnic divide. It is the yeast in the dough, hidden yet revealed whenever the love of God is expressed. It is 'within' yet of outward consequence.
When in evidence, the personal outcomes are real: "The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor." Matthew 11:5
So too the social outcomes: "All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favour of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved." Acts 2:44-47
John, It is true that no nation can truly be Christian and I agree that we have periods of great influence. Yes I lament orthodoxy in either case. Christian actions are always based upon the truth of the word not some existential truth. The idea of speaking the truth in love as Paul stated in Ephesians is actually the phrase "truthing it out in love." I also agree with you that there were major social deficits that existed. Part of "truthing it out in love is really demonstrating the love of Christ for a lost world, demonstrating it in the church and demonstrating it the world and demonstrating it by deed. The root of the cause is not sociological one but it is first and foremost moral one and this nation like all other nations remain strong by its morality. One would have to admit that we in this nation have lost our moral compass because we have lost a sense of an almighty sovereign God who has spoken. The great empire of Rome fell because it had lost a moral foundation. We are living in a nation where you can go to jail for killing a lion but be justified when you can kill millions of unborn babies. Are we not "worshiping the creature more than the creator who is blessed for ever." I am not saying that America is a Christian nation far from it but God did graciously allow it to be used for a time for His glory as imperfect as it may have been. What I am saying is that the American Church has lost its effectiveness in the society in which it exists. I hold the church accountable for that. I know your sociological arguments and some I agree with. Just as no nation can ever claim to be a Christian nation I do not believe that the churches main mission is sociological. We are indeed to be salt and light. The main mission is to proclaim the life, death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and there can be no eternal life apart from faith in Him. The message hasn't changed and the depravity of man has not changed. The message is not progressive socialism, it is personal salvation. Yes we change the things that we can change, we become and influence where we can change but we always effect change with one goal in mind, "For the Glory of God." The question does become, "in what context do we proclaim the message?" Do we do it in word only or do we also do it in deed? To this end I agree we are to minster to the poor and to empower the disenfranchised but not to the expense of leaving aside the main mission of the church, to proclaim turning from sin and receiving new life in Jesus Christ. Jesus did not come to make any nation a Christian nation. He came to redeem a people. He did not come to create the perfect sociological system. He did remind us that if believe the truth you will live the truth and that includes living in social context but never to the expense of the revealed truth of scripture concerning sin and salvation.
Appreciate your well articulated and thoughtful response.
We are to first love and then preach. Both are necessary but as Jesus emphasized: 'they will know you are my disciples by your love for one another.' It is out of that love both the gospel is preached and practiced.
Each of us has our own pre-dispositions as to what we think most important. But evangelism and justice are not severed in the gospel the way they are in the contemporary church. The contemporary church is divided between the conservative and liberal. If conservative, there is a greater emphasis on personal morality. If liberal, there is a greater influence on social justice issues. There is animosity where there need not be. It is a tendency first seen in the Corinthian church:
"You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?
What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. For we are co-workers in God’s service." I Cor 3:3-9
As any reader of this forum will attest: we agree about the who: the supremacy and lordship of Christ as attested to by his life, death, resurrection, and ascension - and bicker about how it translates into our daily lives.
The truth is - we are co-labourers - of varying emphasis and consequence, 'salt of the earth, light of the world, whose good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise our Father in heaven.'
John, I do agree with you that we are to have love for one another, this is the sign by which the world knows we are His. Can you further explain what you mean by "love" for it has many , even sociological connotations these days. Do we mean by love, approval of all life styles? Do we mean by being unloving the failure to proclaim to the watching world absolute truth? By word and by deed?
Brother John,
I do so much agree with you that there has to be a visible demonstration of the love of God to our brothers and sisters and to the world. We do need to demonstrate in both word and deed. I think that in these days where Christians are being portrayed almost as the enemies of the state and that will only increase, I think it will be more important then ever for Christians to unite in real love. Even when the early church was being persecuted they demonstrated real love to the orphans and widows of believers and non-believers alike. They shared of their resources and they continued to preach the gospel. I think that as the nation collapses morally and economically, for history bears the fact that the two go hand in hand, we may even see the resurgence of Christian community, pooling our resources and our finances. I agree that part of the damage we as a Church have inflicted upon our culture, among other things is that we have been guilty of preaching without practice.
John Deacon, why won't you STATE what the Gospel is? Because you do NOT KNOW.
John Deacon said quote: "We are to first love and then preach. Both are necessary but as Jesus emphasized: 'they will know you are my disciples by your love for one another."
My response: Notice... it is the LOVE for OTHER CHRISTIANS... that will reveal that we are His disciples.
Here is what God tells us to DO...
Ephesians 4:15 - "But SPEAKING the TRUTH in love..."
God says SPEAK TRUTH IN LOVE... yet you are satisfied to SAY you are LOVING... while being CONTENT to let others GO TO HELL!
1. Peter 2:1-3- "But there were FALSE prophets also among the people, even as there shall be FALSE TEACHERS among you, who privily shall bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES, even DENYING THE LORD that bought them, and bring upon themselves SWIFT DESTRUCTION. (2) And MANY SHALL FOLLOW their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. (3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their DAMNATION SLUMBERETH not."
1. Timothy 4:3 - "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
Isaiah 5:20 - "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
The gospel is: 'Christ in you the hope of glory.'
The gospel is to hear these words from Jesus: 'Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.'
The gospel is: 'There is now no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus, And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.'
The gospel is: 'Who will then condemn us? No one - for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us and he is sitting in the place of honour at God's right hand, pleading for us.'
The gospel is: 'You are the light of the world...let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father.'
The gospel is: 'Come you who are blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you invited me into your home. I was naked and you gave me clothing. I was sick and you cared for me. I was in prison and you visited me.'
The gospel is: 'Anyone who receives you receives me and anyone who receives me receives the Father who sent me.'
The gospel is: no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him/her, and that Jesus can not nor will not lose even one of those committed to his care.
Or my personal favourite: The gospel is: 'Blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom of God.'
The gospel is such a multi-faceted gem, there are so many ways to express it.
How would you express it?
John you refer:Jesus: "Neither do i condemn you" I applaud that and i stand in agreement with Jesus on that sector of that sentence. But will you agree with me on the second part: "go and sin no more". Jesus is asking us to not condemn anyone, but also instructing us to tell others not to sin anymore.
Reginald:
I love that verse. But I think what we get wrong about it is the emphasis.
The strength to 'go and sin no more' comes entirely from the same source as 'neither do I condemn you.' Otherwise 'to go and sin no more' isn't possible.
I think you'll agree, the woman whom Jesus forgave, did sin again. We all do. But what broke in her is the power of sin to define her going forward. Instead of being known as the adulterer, she was known as the forgiven one. And eventually, if not immediately she began living life as one forgiven.
There's where the power comes from. From the One who came not to condemn but to rescue.
For some, the ensuing transformation is instantaneous, and for others it takes time.
I was thinking this morning of Robert's repeated insistence that Jesus only befriended repentant sinners.
But a cursory glance at his disciples reveals how shockingly unrepentant they were. Think of all the times Jesus had to rebuke them for their lack of faith, for their resistance to his repeated instruction about 'the least becoming the greatest', or their unwillingness to accept the news of his impending death, or their continual struggle among themselves as to who should be the greatest.
About the only commendable attribute about Jesus' disciples prior to his death was their willingness to stick with him, when so many others had deserted him. As he says just prior to his betrayal: 'you have stayed with me in my time of trial.'
John: i will be bold here and say that what you state regarding "go and sin no more" is a gross reflection of scripture manipulation. we do not take comfort in the scriptures but the scriptures take comfort in us.
John Deacon said quote: "The gospel is such a multi-faceted gem, there are so many ways to express it. How would you express it?"
My response: Exactly the way that God PROCLAIMS it...
)-1 Corinthians 15:1-4
)-1 Moreover, brethren, I DECLARE unto you THE GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
)-2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
)-3 For I delivered unto you FIRST OF ALL that which I also received, how that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures;
)-4 And that HE WAS BURIED, and that HE ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the scriptures:
__________________________
NOWHERE in your 301 word response did you mention the DEATH of Jesus!
...NOWHERE did you mention His BURIAL!
......NOWHERE did you mention His RESURRECTION!
No wonder you DON'T lead people to SALVATION... YOU PREACH A DIFFERENT GOSPEL! You try and get the UNSAVED to comprehend SPIRITUAL TRUTH... while they are SPIRITUALLY DEAD!
Since you do not KNOW the Gospel... one could ask... how were you saved? Are you saved?
Dear Robert:
You didn't read what I wrote.
If you look again, you'll see:
The gospel is: 'Who will then condemn us? No one - for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us and he is sitting in the place of honour at God's right hand, pleading for us.'
You're being needlessly argumentative.
You can't stand the thought of my being your brother in Christ.
Enough said.
My response: If you scroll up through this thread you will see that I spent four years in full-time ministry in NY City. One of our outreaches was to an AIDS hospital. The only way people left that hospital was either dead... or by a miracle healing.
God used us to lead many AIDS victims to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. On one of these occasions God allowed me to share the Gospel with a dying homosexual... who repented... received Jesus and four days later was IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD!
NO magic formula for building a "relationship" was necessary... NO spending time "fellowshipping" with the unbeliever was needed... NO months and months of "friendship evangelism" was mandated...
JUST THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION... THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST!
It is no wonder so few see people come to Christ... MANY think that the Gospel is WEAK and LACKS POWER to radically change lives!
Not to be trite, but death bed repentances only mean as Christian witnesses we have to show up. It is rare when death confronts someone face to face, that the hope of the resurrection isn't taken, if articulated simply. Friendship isn't required when there isn't time for it.
But most relationships begin somewhere other than in life and death situations, when most of us, taking the 12 disciples as an example, take days if not years to come to faith. In such situations friendship is essential. Jesus is 'the friend of sinners', even in advance of our becoming repentant sinners. It is his kindness which leads us to repentance.
'While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.' In this is the complete mystery and marvel of his love.
I agree with you that the gospel is strong, but the transformation is not always instantaneous. We rely - those of us in the slow lane - on his patience and his long-suffering, which surprisingly enough was true of Paul who wrote near the end of his life:
"For that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life." I Timothy 1:16.
If Jesus had to be patient with Paul and sustain him with friends like Timothy, then friendship is a requirement for sinners and saints alike, so that no one gives up on the hope of God's love.
My response: Why NOT be trite... you are NOT TRUE to Jesus... so you might as well FULLY COMPROMISE and be TRITE.
The fact that you don't call SINNERS TO REPENTANCE... is the reason you don't lead anyone to the Lord.
John Deacon said quote: "In response to your entry asking that we share our experiences of leading gays to Christ, I can't say that I have lead any."
Of course you DON'T LEAD ANY GAYS TO THE LORD... YOU DON'T PREACH THE TRUE GOSPEL... SO THEY CAN'T GET SAVED...
...WHAT A HATE-FILLED POSITION TO TAKE.
______________________________
John Deacon said quote: "It is rare when death confronts someone face to face, that the hope of the resurrection isn't taken, if articulated simply."
My response: HOW DO YOU KNOW? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO AN AIDS HOSPITAL? HAVE YOU EVER WITNESSED TO SOMEONE DYING FROM SUCH A DISEASE?
Have you ever had people on their death beds cursing you and Jesus right into HELL?
How dare you come across as an "EXPERT" when you HAVE NEVER LED ANY GAY PERSON TO JESUS!
HYPOCRITE!
You claim to "love" them... but you HATE THEM SO MUCH YOU LET THEM DIE AND GO TO HELL!
______________________________
John Deacon said quote: "Friendship isn't required when there isn't time for it."
My response: Friendship is NEVER REQUIRED!
THE GOSPEL IS POWERFUL!
How many people has Billy Graham led to Jesus? How many were his friends?
How many people did Paul led to Jesus? How many were his friends?
My response: I used to be God's ENEMY a long time ago... I have NO DESIRE to MAKE MYSELF His ENEMY now!
You desire friendship with the world, John Deacon... how does it feel to MAKE YOURSELF God's ENEMY?
Gene de Jongh
I have read the article and do not fault David for writing it and I guess what we are trying to arrive at is some balanced view of what course of action the believing church should take. I do not believe the answer is caving into the social gospel. On the other hand I can see where the non-believing world has come to label us as "hate-mongers" or whatever term that want to use. Part of that is the world "suppressing the truth in unrighteousness" and part of it is due to the fact that the church has not always spoken "the truth in love". Trying to do damage control now is sort of like trying to do damage control on the recent chemical spill in that Colorado river that's recently in the news. This moral decline has been flowing down river a very long an now is picking up real momentum. I have been in the ministry for almost 35 years and I been in the church all my life. I heard way back in the 60's that we were moving toward a post-Christian nation. How did we get here? Let us not forget that it started not with the world, but with the church. In the turn of the 19th century ( you church historians will know better than me) we allowed German Liberal theology to get a foot hold in our seminaries. Theology that cast doubt upon the written revelation of God and so we began to instill into a new generation the question, "hath God really said?" and we began to de-evaluate absolute truth. Absolute truth became existential truth, because of the existentialism inherent in the new "orthodoxy". This move away from absolute truth tore away at the very foundation of Biblical theology and God's revelation of Himself in His Word. The centrality of the gospel was no longer the message of Christ and His real death on the cross for a real fallen human nature, but now it became purely about social justice, and the human condition and our responsibility to cure the human condition. Throw darwism in the mix and you now have a world that is evolving into something beyond the necessity for a personal creator God. Hence we worship the creature rather than the creator. We have pushed a personal God out of our schools, out of our halls of justice and even out of our churches and now we are experiencing the "recompense" of our actions. Look at the history of Christianity in Europe we have moved in the same direction. You would be hard pressed to find more than a hand full of Bible believing churches in any major European city. To hold the line we have tried to shore up the flood by overcompensating with harsh words and hardline stands but now it is too little too late and only comes across as crass and hateful. One should read Francis Schaefer's "Church at the End of the 20th Century and compare it to David's article. Of course ultimately the stance we should take in every case is to trust in promises of an almighty sovereign God, not compromise and consistently speak the absolute truth in genuine love
1 day ago
John DeaconThe gospel is both personal and social. We do the gospel and the church great disservice whenever we try to sever the two. The sermon on the mount has both personal and social ramifications. It not only shapes how we do life individually but communally.
America has never been a Christian nation. It has been a nation where there have been incredible periods of Christian influence, but never Christian. Even as you lament the decline in orthodoxy, you are falsely esteeming a time and society as 'Christian' when slavery was in its height, child labour common, the oppression of the poor and women widespread and the common labourer woefully underpaid: symptoms of a nation anything but Christian.
No nation is Christian nor can be. The kingdom of God is delineated by something other than geographic boundaries, border crossings and racial and ethnic divide. It is the yeast in the dough, hidden yet revealed whenever the love of God is expressed. It is 'within' yet of outward consequence.
When in evidence, the personal outcomes are real: "The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor." Matthew 11:5
So too the social outcomes: "All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favour of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved." Acts 2:44-47
My response: You don't even KNOW what the Gospel is... otherwise you would not say the silly things that you say.
What is the Gospel John Deacon?
Appreciate your well articulated and thoughtful response.
We are to first love and then preach. Both are necessary but as Jesus emphasized: 'they will know you are my disciples by your love for one another.' It is out of that love both the gospel is preached and practiced.
Each of us has our own pre-dispositions as to what we think most important. But evangelism and justice are not severed in the gospel the way they are in the contemporary church. The contemporary church is divided between the conservative and liberal. If conservative, there is a greater emphasis on personal morality. If liberal, there is a greater influence on social justice issues. There is animosity where there need not be. It is a tendency first seen in the Corinthian church:
"You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?
What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. For we are co-workers in God’s service." I Cor 3:3-9
As any reader of this forum will attest: we agree about the who: the supremacy and lordship of Christ as attested to by his life, death, resurrection, and ascension - and bicker about how it translates into our daily lives.
The truth is - we are co-labourers - of varying emphasis and consequence, 'salt of the earth, light of the world, whose good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise our Father in heaven.'
I do so much agree with you that there has to be a visible demonstration of the love of God to our brothers and sisters and to the world. We do need to demonstrate in both word and deed. I think that in these days where Christians are being portrayed almost as the enemies of the state and that will only increase, I think it will be more important then ever for Christians to unite in real love. Even when the early church was being persecuted they demonstrated real love to the orphans and widows of believers and non-believers alike. They shared of their resources and they continued to preach the gospel. I think that as the nation collapses morally and economically, for history bears the fact that the two go hand in hand, we may even see the resurgence of Christian community, pooling our resources and our finances. I agree that part of the damage we as a Church have inflicted upon our culture, among other things is that we have been guilty of preaching without practice.
John Deacon, why won't you STATE what the Gospel is? Because you do NOT KNOW.
John Deacon said quote: "We are to first love and then preach. Both are necessary but as Jesus emphasized: 'they will know you are my disciples by your love for one another."
My response: Notice... it is the LOVE for OTHER CHRISTIANS... that will reveal that we are His disciples.
Here is what God tells us to DO...
Ephesians 4:15 - "But SPEAKING the TRUTH in love..."
God says SPEAK TRUTH IN LOVE... yet you are satisfied to SAY you are LOVING... while being CONTENT to let others GO TO HELL!
HOW HATEFUL!
1. Timothy 4:3 - "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"
Isaiah 5:20 - "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
The gospel is: 'Christ in you the hope of glory.'
The gospel is to hear these words from Jesus: 'Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.'
The gospel is: 'There is now no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus, And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.'
The gospel is: 'Who will then condemn us? No one - for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us and he is sitting in the place of honour at God's right hand, pleading for us.'
The gospel is: 'You are the light of the world...let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father.'
The gospel is: 'Come you who are blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you invited me into your home. I was naked and you gave me clothing. I was sick and you cared for me. I was in prison and you visited me.'
The gospel is: 'Anyone who receives you receives me and anyone who receives me receives the Father who sent me.'
The gospel is: no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him/her, and that Jesus can not nor will not lose even one of those committed to his care.
Or my personal favourite: The gospel is: 'Blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom of God.'
The gospel is such a multi-faceted gem, there are so many ways to express it.
How would you express it?
I love that verse. But I think what we get wrong about it is the emphasis.
The strength to 'go and sin no more' comes entirely from the same source as 'neither do I condemn you.' Otherwise 'to go and sin no more' isn't possible.
I think you'll agree, the woman whom Jesus forgave, did sin again. We all do. But what broke in her is the power of sin to define her going forward. Instead of being known as the adulterer, she was known as the forgiven one. And eventually, if not immediately she began living life as one forgiven.
There's where the power comes from. From the One who came not to condemn but to rescue.
For some, the ensuing transformation is instantaneous, and for others it takes time.
I was thinking this morning of Robert's repeated insistence that Jesus only befriended repentant sinners.
But a cursory glance at his disciples reveals how shockingly unrepentant they were. Think of all the times Jesus had to rebuke them for their lack of faith, for their resistance to his repeated instruction about 'the least becoming the greatest', or their unwillingness to accept the news of his impending death, or their continual struggle among themselves as to who should be the greatest.
About the only commendable attribute about Jesus' disciples prior to his death was their willingness to stick with him, when so many others had deserted him. As he says just prior to his betrayal: 'you have stayed with me in my time of trial.'
My response: Exactly the way that God PROCLAIMS it...
)-1 Corinthians 15:1-4
)-1 Moreover, brethren, I DECLARE unto you THE GOSPEL which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
)-2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
)-3 For I delivered unto you FIRST OF ALL that which I also received, how that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures;
)-4 And that HE WAS BURIED, and that HE ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the scriptures:
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NOWHERE in your 301 word response did you mention the DEATH of Jesus!
...NOWHERE did you mention His BURIAL!
......NOWHERE did you mention His RESURRECTION!
No wonder you DON'T lead people to SALVATION... YOU PREACH A DIFFERENT GOSPEL! You try and get the UNSAVED to comprehend SPIRITUAL TRUTH... while they are SPIRITUALLY DEAD!
Since you do not KNOW the Gospel... one could ask... how were you saved? Are you saved?
You didn't read what I wrote.
If you look again, you'll see:
The gospel is: 'Who will then condemn us? No one - for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us and he is sitting in the place of honour at God's right hand, pleading for us.'
You're being needlessly argumentative.
You can't stand the thought of my being your brother in Christ.
Enough said.